EPISODE 1

“A Voice from the Dark”

DOV:

Do you believe in parallel universes and alternate timelines? Have you ever wondered if it's possible for one reality to bleed into another? Well, tonight we have a very special guest who claims that this is not only possible, but has actually already occurred. And he has what he says is incontrovertible proof of this fact. A series of tapes. Tapes that he contends are from another universe entirely.

And we will be playing those tapes here tonight live on air. I'm Dov Kandel. And this is Kandel Against the Dark.

[THEME MUSIC]

DOV:

Good evening, listeners. And greetings from another undisclosed location, somewhere here in the high desert of the Great Amerigan West. Tonight, we have what promises to be a very exciting and unusual broadcast for you, and I'm just going to get right into it because my guest assures me we have a tremendous amount of ground to cover. So for those of you who weren't tuned in two nights ago, we had longtime friend and contributor to this show, author and investigator, Orson Libretti, on air — via the phone — to promote his new book, Consummation.

And in the course of that discussion, Orson made some shocking claims about that book and the source of its contents. Well, we'll get to the nature of those claims in just a second. Now, our regular listeners will undoubtedly already be familiar with Orson's impressive credentials, and myriad works in the realm of the paranormal and conspiratorial, including his groundbreaking book, The Mazatlan Ghosts.

But for any fluttering Moths out there who may just now be drawing closer to the flame of truth, here is a brief summary of Orson's incredible career. Orson has doctoral degrees in both mechanical and electrical engineering and is a former major in the U.S. Army. During his service, he was recruited by the DOD into a top secret program dedicated to investigating strange, unexplained phenomena deemed to be credible threats to our national security.

Now, despite his retirement from active duty 15 years ago, Orson has nevertheless continued his tireless investigations into all manner of bizarre occurrences as a civilian consultant. His body of work is bursting at the seams with not only extraordinary claims, but extraordinary proof. His talent as an investigator, author and science communicator has made him a favorite guest on this program.

And we are so very pleased to have him back on the show. Orson, thank you for coming back. Welcome.

ORSON:

Thank you for for bringing me back. I'm very excited to be here. It's been a while. For in person.

DOV:

Yes. It's good to see you. Good to see you face to face again.

ORSON:

It's good to see you, too.

DOV:

So let's just get right into it. Now, let's start by reminding our listeners and filling in those who may not have heard the broadcast the other night about the call in you made to the show to promote your new... well, I suppose it's being billed as a novel, Consummation.

ORSON:

That's correct.

DOV:

So you read an excerpt from the book to us over the phone. It was a chilling -- a chilling -- scene in which the main character of the book, I believe his name was Jack.

ORSON:

Yes, Jack Courier.

DOV:

Okay. So in this excerpt, Jack is living through what is clearly some sort of apocalypse that is happening in his in his world. And there are these descriptions of him being pursued by some kind of strange, otherworldly creatures. It's all very terrifying, and I must say, a testament to your storytelling abilities.

ORSON:

Oh, well...Well, thank you.

DOV:

Of course. So there was, toward the end of that excerpt, a mention of a cassette recorder. This was a recorder Jack was planning to use to begin recording his experience of this apocalyptic event.

ORSON:

Correct.

DOV:

And now, it was what you said to us after finishing that reading. That was what prompted Maggie and I to conclude we needed to immediately get you back on the show here in the studio to talk more about all of this. And you made two assertions that are, to say the least, very extraordinary claims. The first was that this novel consummation is, in fact not a novel at all.

Or at least you contend that it is based on events that actually occurred.

ORSON:

Yes. So, so the book has been promoted as fiction. But this is nonfiction. This is just like any of the other books that I've done. This was an incident that... I wasn't there to investigate the initial incident, but I was very heavily involved with investigating the evidence and physical aspects that were recovered from the site of this incident. And from that, everything that I've done with the book came directly from that.

DOV:

Okay. Okay. So the factual nature of the book is the first of your amazing assertions. And as I said, that is, to put it mildly, a pretty incredible claim. And me being the thorough inquisitor that I try to be on this show, I have to press you on that.

ORSON:

I would be disappointed if you didn't.

DOV:

You are a long time friend of the show. You have been bringing us the truth for quite some time. But, you know, I would be remiss had I not asked you what proof you have to back up such a claim. And that brings us to your second assertion. It is your contention that these tapes that Jack was about to record in the excerpt from the book that you read the other night, not only actually exist, but were recorded in another universe, were somehow transported here, and you have them in your possession.

DOV:

Do I... do I have all of that correct?

ORSON:

Yes. Those recordings did happen to him in what constitutes an alternate universe -- alternate reality. One just as real as our own. But those cassette recordings, in fact the recorder itself and other elements from his tale, made it into our universe. We were then able to... I was brought in to basically de-engineer the cassettes and they... and they were what...Something you would recognize as a cassette, a little, a little differently. But the difference between, say, an eight track and, you know, the modern cassettes that they have now. And so once I was able to do that, we were able to basically transfer that material onto cassettes which could then be disseminated through the project, through the, through the departments and everything.

DOV:

Now, now — and I'm sorry for interrupting — I'd like to clarify just for the listeners.

ORSON:

Oh, please. Please.

DOV

How... who, if you are comfortable saying this, who was it that brought you into this project?

ORSON:

I, I, I can't really say that because…

DOV:

And, and, that’s completely understandable.

ORSON:

Yes.

DOV:

Okay. Well, let's let's let's back up and talk about what was discovered. When did these materials become available and how did you first see them? Where did they where did they originate?

ORSON:

Sure, sure. I was dealing just with what had been brought from the site, but there was a meteor... well, for lack of a better word...bolide type object... in the fall of 1973. This object landed and made a crater in some farmland in... I can say it's Nebraska... I can't really say exactly where it was... for obvious reasons, I don't want to offend the powers that be, so to speak.

But. Well, let's just say that if you were to look for this farm, the very small town of which this farm was, was only one of a few dozen, if you were to go on a map or any records, unless you did an extremely deep and detailed record search, you're not going to find anything about this farm or the farmer or anyone from that area anymore. If you get my meaning.

DOV:

I believe I do. That raises a very important thought, which is, are you concerned about bringing these tapes forward?

ORSON:

Another fair question. The case that's based around this... first of all, the reason that you can't really research this farm or farmer anymore, why that that's going to run you to a dead end... Let's just say that was an artifact of a different, uh, administration.

DOV:

Uh huh.

ORSON:

And, and frankly, the government, various government agencies, various people within these agencies have dropped the ball. They made a determination and their determination went counter to... this is a large team of which I was just a part. I was the head of my particular department, but there were there were,,, there were seven department heads, including myself, for this...

DOV:

What were some of these...uh...were these scientists?

ORSON:

Oh, oh, yes, there were there were scientists, theoretical thinkers, even linguists and historians. We were trying to determine if the data that was on these cassettes, whether it was a hoax. And a lot of times you can tell from certain grammatical aspects and things, but the general consensus of everyone involved on a different department has any and even lower, lower down. There were certain disagreements on the particulars, but I can't I can't think of anyone specifically on the team -- and this included some of our officer attachés -- who disagreed with our findings. We did not find it to be a hoax, but it was determined to be a hoax. And the case was considered dead. Technically not declassified, but um...

DOV:

So the recommendation that it be considered a hoax did not come from the team?

ORSON:

No. No. Not at all.

DOV:

That came from the higher ups.

ORSON:

We wanted to keep going, particularly the physicists really wanted to explore this further. And I know for a fact that some of these people, including Roget Bardswell, who you may be familiar with.

DOV:

Yes, yes.

ORSON:

Roget, was on the team... he's one of the... he's been on so many things I'm not... I'm not worried about bringing him up. Not to mention the fact that, you know, he's been dead, what, five, six, six years now.

DOV:

Yeah.

ORSON:

There are certain books and papers that he came out with afterwards that talked about some of these aspects. Um, in hindsight, if you if you if you know this story, then you'll know what he’s... you'll know, “Oh that inspired...”

DOV:

I had not previously made that connection, but that's fascinating.

ORSON:

Okay. Okay.

DOV:

So I just I want to shine a light quickly. There are details in the in the excerpt from the novel that you read that are very concerning in terms of entities, elements and one thing that I want to address right away, because this is... this is implicitly terrifying, if true... if something came -- if these cassettes, if this player...if these elements came from this... through, as we referred to the other day, the veil...

How do we know that other menacing, dangerous elements didn't also come? Are we in danger?

ORSON:

That is a very difficult question to answer fully for many reasons. I will say that there are some answers that I would like to present, but I'd like to hold off on a little bit until we know a bit more, because the context of that will be important. But I just I definitely understand the concern. I absolutely understand the concern. Your question was foremost on our minds the more we delved into this... this incident. And I have no reason to think that the incident was, was a hoax. I believe very fervently that it was not.

DOV:

Now, the... the tapes that you have, uh, are these originals? Do you have the actual originals, or are these duplicates?

ORSON:

Okay. These are these are the original duplicates. And what I mean by that is... the, the... the cassettes that were used were of a of a general ferromagnetic type recording unit. But we were able to... it took a bit of doing, but we were able to de-engineer that in order to transfer it to some other cassettes. So what I have is the original copies.

DOV:

I have to ask, you do have a book tour coming up. I assume you want to sell as many copies as possible. Why share so much with us here?

ORSON:

Well, as I said, when it comes down to it, I'm doing this to get the information out. This needs to get out there in as many forms and avenues as possible. And bottom line, that's, that's just simply more important to me.

DOV:

Okay, fair enough. I'm eager to hear these tapes, and I'm sure our listeners are, too. But before we do that, I just wanted to ask you one more question. Aside from the different technology of the cassette recorder itself, what from the site...what from the site indicates to you that this wasn't something that just fell out of a plane? How do you know…

ORSON:

The uh...

DOV:

…where this is...That this is from somewhere else.

ORSON:

The uh... The burned body of the man that we assume to be Jack laying in the in the crater, still clutching the briefcase, which was carbon scored.

DOV:

That is a stark…

ORSON:

That was a pretty clear indicator that something spectacular had happened. And I mean, it was it wasn't a huge crater. I mean, I just saw the photos, but I mean, you know, they had the...the rulers that you lay out... you know, for, for... for size and everything. And there were actually a few people standing around, so... But you can imagine something the size of a of a human being traveling at sufficient velocity to say, survive, you know, the trip to the ground, what to make. I imagine the... the briefcase... and I think the determination was the briefcase probably made most of the of the crater. But there were, uh... there was most of a burned body there. I must say, things did not end well for Jack.

DOV:

For Jack.

ORSON:

If we assume that it's… that it was Jack.

DOV:

Indeed. Well, we pontificated long enough here. I think it's, it's now time for us finally to dive headlong into these recordings. So you have a tape ready to share with us. And I am on pins and needles to hear this.

ORSON:

Yeah, the first of... the first of many, yes. So I don't I don't want to give you too much context. I prefer you and the listeners to just kind of go into this without any kind of contextual weight. You know, I just want you to experience them as close to the way that I experienced them as possible.

DOV:

That makes sense.

ORSON:

In other words, just come to them fresh. And I'd also like to give a shout out to, uh, to the great Maggie Wayne. Your...

DOV:

The great Maggie Wayne.

ORSON:

Your producer and, and wife. She set up a nice little set up here where I can play in and control the, the tapes. We're going to let this one run in its entirety because it really sort of sets everything up and it gives us a good idea of, of who Jack is and what his situation is.

DOV:

Okay.

ORSON:

So I say we just hit play and let it run. And, you know... and of course, if, if, if you want to stop at any point and discuss something, that's fine. Or we can wait till the end. But it’s your show, I leave it in your capable hands. So uh...

DOV:

Yeah, let's, let's just let it... let's let it play. Let's hear... let's hear what you have.

ORSON:

Okay, here we go.

[TAPE CLICK]

JACK:

I don't really know how to do this. I've just never been much of a talker. But apparently it has been decided I'm going to be now. So, here we are. I think it's all starting to make sense to me. You know, given the way that I found it, I have to assume that this recorder is all part of the plan.

I mean, it being where it was is completely inexplicable. Just like everything else that's happened. So clearly, it's part of the plan, which means that simply by making this tape, I am probably yet again doing exactly what's expected of me and I don't have any idea how this fits and everything, but if I have learned anything, it is that nothing is accidental

when we're talking about the mechanics of ending a world. And I've also learned that there is no use in resisting whatever is behind all of this. And you know what? That's fine. If they want me to use this thing, then I'll use it in the only way I feel compelled to use it, which is to document all of this, everything that's happened, everything that's still happening for, I don't know, posterity, I guess.

And it seems kind of moot at this point, but still, I have to at least try to provide a record. A record of the horrors that were visited on my wife, on me, on humanity. So I guess what follows will be, in essence, my own version of a protest song. And I have no idea who I'm even talking to because I'm pretty sure that there isn't anyone left.

But still, here I am. Because even if there is nobody left, I still need to say these things out loud. I need to try to process it. To somehow make sense of it all. And I should probably start by acknowledging that I am keenly aware that there is a very small but nevertheless real possibility that I'm simply having a psychotic break, that everything I think has happened hasn't, and that ‘Scilla’s actually okay. That she's still alive. Still whole. You know, that I didn't do what I think I did, and I didn't see what I think I saw. That somewhere along the line I just had a complete break from reality. And God, I really hope that's true, because it would certainly make a lot more sense than anything I've experienced in -- what I'm assuming has been -- the past couple of days. I don't know, maybe it's even been weeks. It's hard to tell. Time feels weird now. I have no idea how long I was driving through that fog before I found this place, but that alone felt like an eternity. And the Sun has been gone for what feels like an impossibly long time. Definitely more than a day. But anyway, if all of this is just in my head, if I am just psychotic, well, then I guess this tape is going to explain a lot of things to some really confused people.

And no matter how small I think the chances of that are, if that's the case, if what I think is happening isn't happening, if ‘Scilla is actually all right, then I want her to know why, Because her understanding is all that matters to me. It’s all that's ever mattered. And I guess regardless of what turns out to be true, I want it on record that there's still one thing that is a guaranteed constant in any possible reality, and that is that everything I have done -- all of it -- is because of her. Well, maybe I shouldn't say “because of her”, but more “for her”. Because at least as far as I'm concerned, everything I have ever been was purpose built for her. And I know that sounds either insane or pathetic or both, but I promise you it will make a lot more sense once I've explained everything. And if I'm going to lay everything out, for this to make sense, then I guess I need to just pick a reality and stick with it. You know, I can't just keep riding the fence and wondering whether or not I'm crazy. So for the purposes of this exercise, I am going to assume that all -- or at least most -- of what I've experienced is objective reality. It isn't the one I'd prefer, but it's definitely the one I'm living. And like I said, this only makes sense if you have the full story.

So, I need to make sure we're all up to speed, because a lot has happened before now. You know, as the saying goes, “Begin at the beginning.” And who am I to book convention, right? So yeah, I guess that's where I'll start. With the beginning. The beginning of the end. And that's exactly what it was. The beginning of a slow decay. Ya know, a subtle nudge and tilt before reality just leaned full bore into its own demise. We were all so unprepared. Or maybe we were perfectly prepared, just not in any way we could actually comprehend. All of the prophecies of all the faiths, all the scienceticians data points and models and simulations and predictions, every math and poetry and philosophy, all of it, wrong. There was no bang, no whimper, no fire, no ice. It was just a collective sigh and a feeling of everything cycling down to a full stop.

But you know what strikes me the most is that no one felt or noticed the strangeness of it all, even as it was actively consuming them. No one but me. Well, I guess me and Reinhardt. But who knows if he managed to resist, or if he finally gave in like everyone else. You know, the seductive power of the Mater was clearly overwhelming. So who could blame him? And I guess despite my uniqueness, it even took me a while to realize what was happening. You know, not that I have a full understanding even now, but I am certainly farther along than I was when this all started.

And here is one thing I know for certain. The proverbial party is over. Whoever or whatever is in charge has ordered the tables cleared and the decorations packed away. Thrown away, really. Dumped out with the trash. Because they are not going to be needed again. And all that's left is just to lock the doors and turn off the lights.

I have no idea why I've been left to remain this long, why I was chosen, but I suspect it's simply because I didn't exactly take to the Mater Node. Or I guess it would be more accurate to say that it didn't really take to me. You know, whatever wish fulfillment that technology was offering just wasn't compatible with me. And so, I guess in my case, they made other plans. You know, that's really the only sense I can make of this. This idea that I've been saved, at least for the moment, by the one thing I have always known made me different. An outlier. And sadly, accepting that also means accepting that ‘Scilla is gone. That she suffered a horrific end. And that it's all because of me. Because of the way that I am, or at least the way that I was before all of this. The way I was when they first found me.

I mean, it's pretty clear now that I'm the reason that her body was brutally hijacked. Hijacked and callously repurposed, reappropriated for all of this. For the end. I mean, I guess in a way that was true of everyone's body, but not like hers. Not even close. Still, however they went, they all ended up the same in the end. As piles of refuse spiraling down the drain with everything else. Anything and everything they had to offer was sucked out. And now all that's left are just dehydrated husks. Mere impressions of the people they used to be. Helpless victims. Victims of themselves in a way. Of their desires.

Because, see, that's the thing: the Nodes are all about desire. And that just did nothing for me. And let me be clear, I am not saying that I am better than any of these people. I'm just different in the only way that seems to have mattered in the end. Because I have never had what you would call a “normal” sense of desire -- for anything. I just wasn't wired that way. Ya know, even after I met ‘Scilla, which was -- in every way -- my great awakening, you know, my first and only experience with what it feels like to actually want anything, even then, any desire I felt didn't extend to anything outside of her. Her and her happiness. With everything else, I remained the same as I'd always been: content with having only the things that any animal’s instincts would point them toward. Shelter. A good night's sleep. A nutritious meal. A drink when thirsty. And all of them easily satisfied for me. All of them basic to my survival There was never any ambition for anything greater than that. Nothing but what I absolutely needed.

So, ‘Scilla, if by some miracle you're hearing this, you can take that to the bank. My desire for you was just like the rest -- fundamental to my basic survival.

But that weird gap in my psyche, that lack of desire, yeah, that's gone now. Everything has changed. You know what happened between me and ‘Scilla right before all of this began had already fundamentally altered the way I experience the world. You know, much like meeting her all of those years ago had. Only this time, it wasn't for the better. And that one thing seems to have changed me just enough to make everything else possible. It opened a door inside of me that I didn't even know existed. And after that, all whoever or whatever is behind all this had to do was simply walk through. And once they had, there was no going back. I guess my metamorphosis is now complete. Just like Pinocchio, I have at long last become a real boy.

But see, that's the thing: Pinocchio, he had it all wrong. Because being a real boy means being fully human, just like everyone else. And as it turns out, humans have their own set of strings. Strings far less easy to cut. Strings being relentlessly tugged on by their distinctly human desires. Desires that they never even had a hand in choosing for themselves. Not really. And I didn't choose this either. Any of it.

But just like everyone else, I had my part to play in all this too, and I clearly haven't fulfilled that purpose yet. Not entirely. Because after all, I'm still here. And like I said, there are no accidents with them. That much is clear. No, I was saved for something. Maybe it's not “saved” exactly. Maybe it's more like “saved for last”. Maybe I'm still here because for whatever reason, they want me to witness it. The end. Or maybe they just want me to suffer. Maybe that's it. Well, if that's the case, they can rest assured that I am right on task.

But who really knows? You know, whatever it is they want from me, I am sure they will find their way to getting it eventually. Hell, like I said, maybe I'm already doing it. There's just no way for me to know. But whatever the case, for now, I am content to just keep doing what I'm doing. I will document all of it, everything I can remember, because that's really the only choice I have at this point. It's all I've got left. And I will keep doing it until I can't anymore. Until whatever end they have in mind for me finally comes.

But first, it looks like I need to flip this tape. Which means so do you. Guess I'll see you on the other side.

[TAPE CLICK]

DOV:

All right, I need a minute.

ORSON:

I felt much the same way when I first heard that, so...

DOV:

I, I can't imagine what it must have been like to...to hear that and... understanding the context of how it was recovered... I, I would just...I want to get some initial thoughts, and I would ask you to sort of... if you can go back to, mentally, the place you were when you when you first heard that, but... outside of...of the...the pain that we can hear in his voice, it raises so many questions of, of the plan. He talks a lot of the plan..

ORSON:

Yes.

DOV:

…and the... sort of... you can hear the futility in his... in his voice, in his tone, and the love he clearly has for...for I believe it was ‘Scilla?

ORSON:

Yes. Yes. Yeah, Yes. Short for Priscilla, you know, a term of endearment. Clearly, he um...

DOV:

Cared deeply.

ORSON:

Oh yes, certainly.

DOV:

So in the recording, Jack talked about... he used the term Mater... Mater Node? Nodes?

ORSON:

Yes. Yes.

DOV:

Can we can we speak a little bit? Especially there is a reference to desire. And I would just...

ORSON:

Sure. We can only, you know, surmise so much from what we have. But, but it appears that the Mater Node was some sort of network that people tapped into, and it affected their desires in such a way that they became dependent -- emotionally, existentially dependent -- upon this system. I mean, for lack of a better word, it sort of operated like a drug. And in that was what would become the undoing of things, as Jack alludes to in, in the uh recording. I don't want to go too, too far into it. Jack's going to explain it better than I can. And again, we—

DOV:

I was going to say, hearing it in his own words...Certainly.

ORSON:

Right. And we can only surmise so much. As he said, he didn't quite take to it. So, so his, his witnessing of the thing is different than, say, someone who did take to it. So he can, he can in certain ways only describe it in negation. Which, which is very... kind of an important point of, of Jack's story. This sense of of negation and repulsion versus everybody else who appears to have, have taken to this thing wholeheartedly.

DOV:

And what strikes me profoundly is how, though it sounds like he escaped something, he seems incredibly lonely in that repulsion, as you said, from it. It almost may have been better had he succumbed.

ORSON:

Well, he mentions this concept, you know, half jokingly, of becoming a real boy.

DOV:

Yeah.

ORSON:

And you get the sense that, that he recognized his inherent difference from other people with this, this extreme lack of desire that he talks about. We actually had some psychologists come in to try and create a psychological profile for Jack, and they couldn't quite land on exactly what it was. His need for satisfaction...um, that need was greatly diminished to, to almost being nonexistent, as he said. You know, he... one of the things I believe he said “nutritious”, like , “a nutritious meal”. And

DOV :

Certainly.

ORSON:

he had the animal, you know, the little lower down on the brainstem. He had those aspects, but not the others. The things that we... what we would think of as desire, like ambitions and things like that, he doesn't appear to have had these sorts of things. But then at some point, as we’ll learn in the tapes, Priscilla comes into his life and—

DOV:

I was going to say, with the exception of Priscilla, clearly.

ORSON:

And then and then since then something new has happened. And it's almost like... it's always appeared to me that there was some sort of switch within him that would get turned on and off, but it wasn't his hand on the switch, if that makes sense.

DOV:

Perhaps the plan that you referred to.

ORSON:

The plan and who... whoever or, as he said, “whoever or whatever is behind it”. But...but all of this... there is a certain distinct narrative that is going to come out, because Jack is trying to tell his story. This isn't just, just simple, you know, “Dear Diary”, it's...yeah.

DOV:

And I think it's fair to acknowledge upfront that there clearly is no happy ending in this story.

ORSON:

Uh, no. Uh, ope, we're getting...

DOV:

We're getting the blue light from Maggie. I believe that she, like the rest of us, would like to hear more. But before we move on, we do need to take a quick station break. So let's do that and then we'll be back with more from Kandel Against the Dark.

[THEME MUSIC]

END OF EPISODE 1